Liberty House eventually occupied three buildings in downtown Honolulu; two on Fort Street (1925 Annex [L] and the main 1918 structure [R]) and one (1929) on King Street. |
"Honolulu's Kamaaina Department Store" |
1032 Fort Street
Honolulu
Island of Oahu
Hawaii
586-921
First Floor
Fine Jewelry • Fashion Jewelry • Handbags • Small Leather Goods • Fashion Accessories • Hosiery • Gloves • Cosmetics • Notions • Stationery • Books • Camera Shop • Patio Sportswear • Polynesian Shop • Candy Shop • Gourmet Shop • Wine Cellar • Soda Fountain • Men's Boutique • Men's Toiletries • Men's Sportswear • Men's Active Sportswear • Men's Contemporary • Men's Hawaiian Wear • Men's Suits & Sportcoats • Trend Shop • Men's Shoes • Men's Hats
Second Floor
Women's Shoes • Shoe Salon • Swimwear • Active Sportswear • Mainland Sportswear • Mainland Dresses • Patio Dresses • Miss Liberty Shop • Custom-Size Shop • Coat Shop • Suit Shop • Better Sportswear • Better Dresses • Jet Inn Travel Shop • Young Signature • Crest Room Designer Salon • Bridal Salon • Fur Salon • Hat & Hair Salon • Robes & Loungewear • Night Lingerie • Day Lingerie • Bras & Girdles • Private i • Maternity Shop • Uniform Shop • Twix Teen Shop • Girls' Shop • Girls' Accessories • Little Girls' Shop • Boys' Shop • Liittle Boys' Shop • Toddlers' Shop • Infants' Shop • Children's Shoes • Young Polynesian
Junior Whirl Jr. Dresses • Jr. Sportswear • Jr. Dresses • Young Jr. • Jr. Polynesian
Third Floor
Housewares • Small Electrics • China • Glassware • Crystal • Silverware • Barware • Arts & Gifts • Polynesian Gifts • Oriental Room • Lamp Shop • Pictures • Mirrors • Luggage • Table Linens • Draperies • Fashion Fabrics • Hawaiian Fabrics • Art Needlework • Domestics • Blankets • Bed Pillows • Bath Shop • Toy Shop • Sporting Goods • Appliances • Beauty Salon
Fourth Floor
Tea Room • Employment Office • Credit Office • Executive Offices
(100,000 sq. ft.)
Ground Level
Sweet Shop • Gourmet Shop • Wine Cellar • Books • Housewares • Small Electrics • China • Glassware • Crystal • Silverware • Barware • Arts & Gifts • Polynesian Gifts • Oriental Room • Lamp Shop • Pictures • Mirrors • Liberty House Gallery of Art • Luggage • Table Linens • Draperies • Fashion Fabrics • Hawaiian Fabrics • Art Needlework • Domestics • Blankets • Bed Pillows • Bath Shop • Toy Shop • Sporting Goods • Furniture • Interior Design Studio • Rugs
Mall Level
Fine Jewelry • Fashion Jewelry • Handbags • Small Leather Goods • Fashion Accessories • Hat & Hair Salon • Hosiery • Gloves • Women's Shoes • Shoe Salon • Children's Shoes • Cosmetics • Notions • Stationery • Camera Shop • Patio Sportswear • Polynesian Shop • Soda Fountain • Men's Boutique • Men's Toiletries • Men's Sportswear • Men's Active Sportswear • Men's Contemporary • Men's Hawaiian Wear • Men's Suits & Sportcoats • Trend Shop • Men's Shoes • Men's Hats
Third Level
Swimwear • Active Sportswear • Mainland Sportswear • Mainland Dresses • Patio Dresses • Miss Liberty Shop • Custom-Size Shop • Coat Shop • Suit Shop • Better Sportswear • Better Dresses • Jet Inn Travel Shop • Young Signature • Crest Room Designer Salon • Bridal Salon • Fur Salon • Robes & Loungewear • Night Lingerie • Day Lingerie • Bras & Girdles • Private i • Maternity Shop • Uniform Shop • Twix Teen Shop • Girls' Shop • Girls' Accessories • Little Girls' Shop • Boys' Shop • Liittle Boys' Shop • Toddlers' Shop • Infants' Shop • Young Polynesian • Beauty Salon • Optical Shop • Travel Center • Garden Court Restaurant • Garden Court Lounge • Offices • Special Events Room
Junior Whirl Jr. Dresses • Jr. Sportswear • Jr. Dresses • Young Jr. • Jr. Polynesian
Waikiki 2314 Kalakaua Avenue September 1, 1937 - 30,000 sq. ft. 1969 - 38,000 sq. ft. |
Kailua 573 Kailua Road November 25, 1946 - 1,200 sq. ft. November 11, 1953 - 29,000 sq. ft. 1962 - 66,000 sq. ft. LH Luncheonette |
Waialae
Kahala Mall
February 13, 1958
75,000 sq. ft.
LH Luncheonette
|
Ala Moana Center April 6, 1966 240,000 sq. ft. The Garden Court |
Pearlridge 98-205 Kaonohi Street October 30, 1971 109,000 sq. ft. |
Kaahumanu - Maui
October 21, 1972
Kailua - Kona King Kamehameha Hotel Banyan Tree Marketplace 1975 |
If the name Liberty House is not the most famous or familiar
among the great department stores of the US and Canada, the story of its
founding, with its tales of adventure on the high seas stretching from Europe
to the New World and the Pacific Ocean, is nonetheless compelling and all the
more remarkable for its unique tropical setting in America’s 50th
State. Indeed, The Liberty House, as it
was known, identified with Hawaiian culture, history and even language. The store was known by natives as “Hale Kilika” or “the silk house,” and it
eventually adopted the slogan “Honolulu’s Kamaaina
(resident) Department Store.”
Furthermore, its founder famously stated that “There is a great future
in the retail trade in the Sandwich Islands,” and he was nothing if not prophetic.
Its early history could provide the plot (and all necessary details
of) a classic swashbuckling film, meant to be shown on the broadest of the big
screens. Heinrich Hackfeld (1816-1888) was born on October 1st in
the little town of Almsloh, in the Grand Duchy of Oldenburg in Northern Europe
(Germany had not yet been united into one nation by the time he was born). By all accounts, his beginnings were humble –
his father was a common hired hand, though the family were deeply faithful
Lutheran Christians.
With little or no prospects in his home town, slightly west
of Bremen and a short distance to the North Sea, he set his sights on
Amsterdam, where he found work on a ship, traveled throughout Europe and
across the Atlantic, and taught himself to speak English. With his earnings, he was able to fund an
education at the Steurmannschule (Seafarers’ School) in Bremen. After his wife Meta and first-born son died in
childbirth in January of 1838, Hackfeld sailed to South America, and in the
process made the acquaintance of ship broker Georg Friedrich Pflüger. Through this relationship, he eventually
became captain and co-owner of the brig Express
and sailed regularly from Bremerhaven for St. Thomas, V.I. and Maracaibo, Venezuela.
On one of these voyages, the Express was unable to unload cargo in the Mexican port of Mazatlán due to war and prevailing unrest there, so Hackfeld took the cargo to Honolulu, and returned (very profitably) with provisions for the British Navy anchored off the Mexican coast. From there he headed to China with a veritable bounty of Silver and other goods that made him a wealthy trader indeed.
One particularly fateful event in 1845 saw him shipwrecked in
a violent storm off the island of Batan, Phillipines, where, though his ship was a total
loss, he, his cargo, and his crew were rescued by locals from the village of San Carlos. Having lost his investment in the ship, he made his way back to Bremen
and never again sailed as a captain. The
event, no matter how harrowing, did not spoil Hackfeld’s taste for travel and
trading, though, and after a further two years of such work, he became owner of another
brig, this time the Wilhelmine. It was on this ship in 1849 that Hackfeld
sailed for Hawaii with his new wife, Marie Pflüger (daughter of G.F. Pflüger), her brother Karl Pflüger, and Hackfeld's nephew
B.F. Ehlers.
Arriving in Honolulu on September 26, 1849, it was only five
days later that Hackfeld began trading in temporary quarters. In the next year,
he became a partner with Lyman Swan and O.G. Clifford in a retail store on the
corner of Fort and Broadway streets in the Hawaiian capital. In 1850, he welcomed his brother, Johann
Hackfeld, and traveling companion G.F. Pflüger, Jr. to his island home, and by
1852 the contingent of Germans in Hawaii was joined by Johann, another Pflüger brother. Co-incidentally, the
future Liberty House store was founded in the same year that Hawaiian King
Kamehameha III granted his subjects the right to elect a legislature to represent
their interests.
Hackfeld’s business (known at the time as H. Hackfeld, Ship
Chandlers & General Agents) grew steadily from the wealth of whalers and California
prospectors who arrived in Hawaii to trade.
Before the decline of the whaling industry in the 1860s, Hackfeld set up
an agency for northwestern US lumber mills, and became a factor (agent) for
Hawaii’s vast sugar and molasses plantations.
Furthermore, he was an official agent of the Imperial Russian Crown,
furthering that far-flung empire’s Pacific trade.
The relationship with Russia was strong enough that the
company hosted a memorable grand ball at the Honolulu Court House, attended by
the king and queen, for visiting Russian officers in Honolulu in 1862. The Polynesian called the event “a ne plus ultra of balls given in this
place, (that) well deserves a mention for the unrivaled combination of
elegance, magnificence, taste and completeness which characterized it.” Adding to all of this was a “most brilliant
pyrotechnic display” that was launched form the Russian corvette Calevala anchored in Honolulu harbor. Dancing commenced “at 9 P.M. and continued till
2 o’clock in the morning” according to the paper.
Returning to Bremen in 1855, Hackfeld left his own business
interests in the hands of the Karl Pflüger, but he eventually returned to establish a
formal shipping line between Bremen and Honolulu. Hackfeld left Hawaii for the last time in
1862, to retire in Germany, where he died in 1887. Prior to leaving, Heinrich Hackfeld sold his retail store to
B.F. Ehlers, and it was accordingly renamed for its new owner. B.F. Ehlers & Co. moved in 1857 to a new two-story wood-framed edifice on
Fort Street at the King Street corner, and relocated again to a new brick building in 1866. The Hackfeld interests were left to Heinrich's younger brother Johann, who lived on until 1932
H. Hackfeld & Co. had by 1862 become one of Hawaii’s
biggest and most characteristic business firms, as well as the largest sugar
factoring agency in the Hawaiian Islands.
While it was outwardly identified with its tropical home, the business
was thoroughly German in character, with German-speaking executives, and many
employees who remained in the German military reserves. H. Hackfeld & Co. served as the German
consulate in Hawaii as well.
B.F. Ehlers continued to thrive in Honolulu’s retail trade,
but a bankruptcy filing in 1885 forced H. Hackfeld & Co. to re-purchase the
store and re-organize the business in the early 1890s. A new, 2-story building was constructed after
the store was destroyed in a disastrous 1896 fire. The indignities of the past were clearly
forgotten by 1899, when B.F. Ehlers celebrated the 50th anniversary
of the store’s founding by Heinrich Hackfeld in 1849. The business gave
lavishly to charity on the occasion and endowed the construction and
maintenance of a Lutheran church in Honolulu to celebrate the occasion.
Incorporation under the name of H. Hackfeld & Co., Ltd. occurred in 1897, and in 1902 the company erected a beautiful Beaux-Arts structure, a building worthy of any large city in Germany, as its corporate headquarters. The landmark building, at the corner of Fort and Queen Streets, stood in the center of Honolulu for 70 years, until it was demolished to make way for a new skyscraper headquarters complex.
Incorporation under the name of H. Hackfeld & Co., Ltd. occurred in 1897, and in 1902 the company erected a beautiful Beaux-Arts structure, a building worthy of any large city in Germany, as its corporate headquarters. The landmark building, at the corner of Fort and Queen Streets, stood in the center of Honolulu for 70 years, until it was demolished to make way for a new skyscraper headquarters complex.
When the United States entered World War I in 1917, it came
into conflict with the unified (since 1871) German Reich, and anti-German
sentiment spread all the way to Hawaii.
The suspicion of anyone or anything German (or with a Teutonic accent)
in Hawaii reached a fever pitch when the business of H. Hackfeld & Co. was
sued by the government for conspiracy to ship arms to Germany. By this time much of the firm’s management had
fled back home to Europe, and H. Hackfeld & Co ultimately pleaded guilty to the
charge. The Federal government's Alien Property Custodian, in 1918, seized the business and sold it to a
group of investors, who re-organized it as American Factors, Ltd.
The B.F. Ehlers store, which became a subsidiary of American
Factors, Ltd., was renamed The Liberty House, around the same time in 1918 that
a new, Beaux-Arts style structure was being built in Honolulu to house it. Ironically, the store’s design was very much
in a traditional European, if not German mold, and when the old name was
removed from the edifice, the press mentioned that it went some way towards the
de-germanizing the new facility, thus making it more palatable to wartime
Hawaiian customers and visitors.
After the war, Johann Hackfeld sued the US Government to regain the assets of H. Hackfeld & Co., but was unsuccessful, and a further lawsuit by his executors in the late 1930s resulted in the seizure of the remaining assets of Johann Hackfeld's estate by the Federal Government, who revealed that Johann Hackfeld had never been a citizen of the United States before H. Hackfeld & Co. was dissolved.
New name or not, The Liberty House prospered after the war, and
developed into a major anchor of Honolulu's Fort Street shopping district. By 1925, an expansion was deemed necessary, and an
adjacent building on King Street was incorporated into the main store as the
so-called “Annex.” By 1956, the second
and third floors of the Wickman Building on Fort Street were added to The
Liberty House’s physical plant. On
Kalakua Avenue in Waikiki Beach, The Liberty House opened a chic branch store
that had to be enlarged eleven years later and doubled in size by 1957. The Waikiki store was marketed and
merchandised differently than the flagship, being a more upscale outlet a stone’s
throw from the beach. The famous Waikiki
Drug Store adjacent to Liberty House Waikiki was operated by the firm and
eventually closed and folded into the department store branch.
As early as 1946, The Liberty House opened a small,
unprepossessing branch at Kailua outside of Honolulu, which was actually
smaller than a typical home of the day.
The diminutive store was successful out of all proportion to its size,
and was soon replaced by a bigger branch operation in 1953. Nine years later,
the Kailua store was enlarged into a full-size operation complete with a
Liberty House luncheonette. In 1958, a
large branch store, with facades covered in subtly-colored Hawaiian ceramic
tile, opened at Waialae in Honolulu’s soigné
Kahala district. The name of the
department store was shortened to Liberty House in 1957.
“Make it a store of character” was a quote once uttered by B.F. Ehlers himself, and it is easy to imagine that those who conceived the new Liberty House flagship store at the Ala Moana shopping
center wanted to do just that. From its
bold masonry exterior highlighted by filigree stone screens and deep brises-soleils, to its vast and
lovely interior housing the large Garden Court Restaurant, everything about the
the 1966 store was designed to impress customers and serve the needs of Liberty
House as it sought to further enhance its reputation among locals and the all-important
tourist trade. Among new departments
added at the time were a full-service furniture and decorating division with
specialty shops for men’s and women’s fashion, crowned by the exclusive Crest
Room for ladies' designer clothing.
As Amfac, Inc. (the new name for American Factors since
1967) expanded into the resort hotel business, Liberty House opened a branch in
shopping gallery the new King Kamehameha Hotel at Kona on the big island of Hawaii
in 1975. Liberty House also partnered with the parent company to develop the
Waikiki Beachcomber on the site of the 1937 Liberty House Waikiki store in
1969.
Modern branch stores opened in Pearlridge, and on the
islands of Maui and Hawaii as the store sought to solidify its position in the
state. It was during the '70s that Amfac sought to expand the Liberty House concept to the west coast by building
new stores in California, purchasing San Francisco’s legendary City of Paris
department store and acquiring the properties of Rhodes Western Department
Stores in Washington, Oregon, California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. The
downtown store, a conglomeration of buildings cobbled together years earlier, was replaced by a completely new department store structure bearing the
Liberty House name.
In spite of its unique location, and its desire to cement
its position of dominance in Hawaii’s retail trade, all was not well at Liberty
House, as chain competitors and low-price stores eroded the customer base it
once dominated. The mainland stores were
never very successful, and were closed by the1980s. What's more, the Hawaii operation
had made the mistake of going after the tourist market, by opening a number of small resort shops, just as a severe
downturn of Asia's economy occurred in 1997.
The nearly 150-year old Liberty House filed for bankruptcy in
1998, about 10 years after Amfac, Inc. was purchased by JMB Realty Corp. of
Chicago. When Liberty House emerged from
bankruptcy in 2001, it was purchased by Federated Department Stores (or what
was left of Federated after its own 1990 bankruptcy under the disastrous leadership of
Canadian developer Robert Campeau). By
2006, the remaining Liberty House stores were converted to Macy’s, and the downtown
Honolulu store on Fort Street eventually closed in 2013, leaving very little to remind
Hawaii shoppers of the captivating story that characterized the
founding of the once-famous Kamaaina
department store of the Hawaiian Islands..
The Ala Moana store added their fourth level in mid-August 1980, moving most home departments from their ground level.
ReplyDeleteBesides the actual stores, Liberty House had very very small boutique stores in almost all the major resorts on the islands. They sold primarily beach wear with some very limited assortments of casual wear. They also sold suntan products in those small resort stores. I doubt Macy's has kept any of those locations as the largest I remember was about 15,000 sq. ft.
ReplyDeleteThe Mainland stores- though they died a slow death over several years - for the most part closed in 1984 (not the 1970's); the Fashion Island (San Mateo) store lasting until 1987.
ReplyDeleteso sad, thought it was still there in Hawaii! things change wish it had not..Peace and aloha to all
ReplyDeleteNice website. I was a big fan of Liberty House. I am wondering if anyone knows about the Liberty House publication "Ka Hale Kokua" (The House of Friendliness and Service) which shared news about Liberty House with staff as well as customers. It included details of store activities, fashion notes, and current events. I believe it was published in 1924.
ReplyDeleteMy Mom worked for Liberty House from 1969-1989, at the Fort St. Mall store, the Ala Moana Center location, the Kahala Mall store, and at the Distribution Center at Campbell Industrial Park. The store was well known for it's aloha attire. Mom still has and wears her mu'umu'u from the store, and they look great. But styles and quality of merchandise have changed. Mahalo for creating and maintaining this site.
ReplyDeleteAloha,
ReplyDeleteI found out that my great-granduncle Carl du Roi with his wife Maragret Ann du Roi (born Carroll) lived before and during WWI in Hawaii and was manager in those times of B.F.Ehlers & Co. (Liberty House) until end of WWI. Are there any infos our sources for to track there lives and businesses in Hawaii? Thank you and best regards from Northern Germany.
Look further, under San Francisco. THe Mainland operration was essentially a separate division with different management, merchandise, store design, logo, etc.
ReplyDeleteMy Grandmother and Great Grandmother shopped with H.Hackfeld/Liberty House in Honolulu for decades, and I as a child clearly remember LH Kailua (my home town) and LH Ala Moana where we would shop back to school. The pink, gold and white boxes will forever remind me of Christmas.... thank you so much for sharing this! Much Aloha
ReplyDeleteWorked at the Ala Moana store from April 1993 through October 1997. Good times. Met lots of people there, customers and employees!
ReplyDeleteMy mother is 98 years old and she still refers to "The Liberty House" even though "the" was dropped from the name in 1957, and furthermore it's been Macy's since 2001. I can remember being dragged to the downtown store or the Waikiki store sometimes on the way home from school 50+ years ago because there was something she wanted to see or purchase.
ReplyDeleteI found a few items from the liberty house. Can you tell me if they are worth anything?
ReplyDeleteNo. Perhaps by publishing it here, someone will see your request. However, without a way to contact you, or any idea what the items are, I would not think it effective. Try an antique dealer, your local history museum, or eBay.
DeleteI was the Director of Store Planning and Construction RME (Responsible Managing Employee) for Amfac Corporation DBA Liberty House, Inc. - Honolulu, HI - 1978 to 1981. Hopefully someone knows the name of the medical group plan Liberty House was using for it's employees between 1978 to 1981.
ReplyDeleteI was a buyer at Liberty House from 1970-1975, but I cannot remember the medical group. I had an injury, and it was covered by Firemen's Fund - could that have been the coverage at that time?
DeleteSo true, notcom11. Final closure not until 1987. I worked at Oakland location until 1987 closing.
DeleteActually, pretty class store for the era and location
So true, notcom11. Final closure not until 1987. I worked at Oakland location until 1987 closing.
DeleteActually, pretty class store for the era and location
I was born in Honolulu in 1963 and remember going to Liberty House with my mother. Everything about the store was luxurious, classy, upscale. It was still the Golden Age of Department Stores—and they reigned undisputedly above all other varieties of retail shopping. Liberty House's story in the 1970's - 1990's (unwise expansion, mergers, consolidation) has been repeated countless times in other small department store chains across the country (many started as family dry goods stores). It resulted in a homogenization of department stores (which lost their sheen next to more-interesting "specialty stores"). I mourn the passing of the hundreds of tightly-held, regional department store "chainlets"—who knew their specific local customer and were able to serve her in a nearly surgical manner.
ReplyDeleteAnd when a small, hyper-local department store was eaten by a larger, far-away conglomerate (or closed-down altogether), a part of the local community would die—be it Marshall-Field in Chicago, G. Fox in Hartford, Joseph Horne in Pittsburgh or Liberty House in Honolulu.
I worked in the Ala Moana Mailroom, etc - ground floor in latter 1965+ with as I recall: Ann, Haruyo S, Charlie n others ... forget boss name.
ReplyDeleteI have a beautiful wooden leaf bowl made out of monkey pod wood that has "Liberty House Monkey Pod Wood Made in Hawaii" carved into the bottom of it. I had no idea until the other day when I was cleaning it really good. It's one of my favorite pieces a friend gave to me!
ReplyDeleteI shopped at Liberty House, Kailua, in 1962, when my husband was stationed at Keneohe Marine Air Station--I recall the beautiful print dresses--and--my first buy of "Le De" Perfume, by Givenchy, Jacqueline Kennedy's favorite perfume--and still one of mine today-- one can still find it through Nordstrom's or by emailing Givenchy in France--
ReplyDeleteI also shopped at the Kailua LH and the downtown store in 1996. My husband was stationed at Kaneohe MCBH and I would frequent this store regularly. The smell of the department store brought back memories of my hometown and would help me from being homesick while he was deployed. I bought some really nice things from LH and will for we remember the tea room downtown and the soup breadbowl I would have for lunch. Amazing memories and will never forget the smell of luxury when I walked into the store and the cool air that would hot my face.
ReplyDeleteWorked as a part time cleaner (Kailua Store) at night while going to college in the late 1970's. Only names I remember were Joe the bos and Jake. Got a speeding ticket on my way to work just over the Kailua bridge. Cop pulled a gun on me. I thought he was going to shoot me a throw me in the river... lol... Those were the days :-)
ReplyDeleteI lived in Hawaii from 1984-88 and can remember shopping for school clothes, shoes and aloha attire at Liberty House. My mom also used to get these delicious candies - wrapped in green and gold, they were like hard, minty caramels. I also have a vague memory of going to the one in Ala Moana during Christmas and seeing a beautiful holiday display of the Hawaiian Royal Family (Kalakaua, I think). Does anyone remember or know anything about this?
ReplyDeleteWow, I never expected to find this page on the history of the Liberty House store, or find recent posts from people who remember the store, too! I still have a tiny diamond cross necklace that I purchased there in the mid 70s. Today I was cleaning out a drawer and found a pair of cedar Liberty House shoe trees. It got me thinking about the store and trying to find some information about it.
ReplyDeleteI was honestly surprised to not only find a site like this about the Liberty House store, but also find recent posts from people, too. I was born and raised in Hawaii from 1960-1987, and then moved to the mainland. I purchased a tiny delicate diamond cross necklace in the late 70's that I still love. I was cleaning out a drawer today and found cedar shoe trees with a Liberty House plaque/id on them, and it got me to thinking how much I loved LH back in the day. I think I still have my credit card, too.
ReplyDeleteI worked at Liberty House in downtown Honolulu Hawaii in 1970 my makeup counter was MaxFactor cosmeticsand ocasionaly I would be asked to work at ala Moana shopping center I Love Hawaii
ReplyDeleteMy mom, aged 93, worked as an elevator girl 1946, 1947 at the Fort St Mall LH. Back then it was quite prestigious to be chosen and wear the uniform. Would anyone have any pictures from that time?
ReplyDeleteInteresting information!
ReplyDeleteI worked upstairs of Liberty HOUSE, 1 N. King St.
ReplyDeleteIn the 1980s I was a part-time employee at the ala Moana store. I remember the Safari sales and I think you could get one item for 75% off on the day that you worked, but my shift was always open to close on a Saturday or Sunday and I never had time to shop. Of course, stores close much earlier back then.
ReplyDelete